Post by grandpawrichard on Jun 17, 2004 15:03:41 GMT -7
I finally got a chance to do a bit of comparison shooting yesterday and today. Man, am I beat! 
Here goes:
Copper John Deadnuts Pro 3
Pro: Extremely Bright, Easy to see pins for .029 size
9 inch sight bar ( I prefer a 10 inch sight bar myself, but the 9 inch performed flawlessly! )
Pro: 3rd. axis setting was a dream!
I like the Huge Bright ring around the sight, but it is a bit distracting for me.
Adjustments for the sight would be nicer if they were tool-less.
It took Several tries to get everything Locked down tight. It didn't take long to do but it was annoying. I'm not one to reef hard on screws that go through light metal or aluminum.
Pro: Overall appearance of the sight is very good and it is extremely well made.
Pro: The housing has enough light windows in it to help brighten the pins up.
Con: But I'm afraid that the design of the housing would lead to disaster as a hunting sight. I'm afraid that while going through the brush a twig could easily go thru those windows and break the fiber optics on the sight pins.
Con: I have also heard that the fiber optics on these sights have a tendancy to break very easily. So I bought the cup to protect them. It would have been nice to have the front and rear of the pin housing closed up.
Pro: The after burner light kit is Totally Awesome! I followed directions and used a sharpie pen to dim the light down. Even then you can still see the pins glow in the dark from a distance of 20 yards! Three thumbs up for the Afterburner light kit!
Pro: I forgot to mention that I really like the zero pin gap, vertical and horizontal gang adjustments, plus the fact that the sight level can be leveled with the independent vertical gang adjustment feature. That is some really great engineering and deserves recognition!
Pro: I like the way the slide bar Locknut tightens down. It stays tight and is big enough to use even when wearing bulky Gloves!
Pro: I also like how the sight bar slides back into the bow and locks down for transporting. This feature should protect the sight area quite well! Good Job Copper John!
Con: There is No way to mount a bow-mounted quiver on this sight. That's something that the design department should think about changing!
Pro: The price for this sight is very reasonable! About $79.
Toxonics Topgun M-38
Pro: Very good looking overall appearance and as usual Toxonics out did themselves in the Sturdiness Department!
Pro: I really like the Windage and elevation adjustments with the good and clear markings.
Con: The Lock down knobs for windage and elevation are extremely close to each other and tend to get in each others way! I had to keep taking one or the other levers off to fine tune the sight. In my opinion they need to work on the design there.
Con: The slide bar locking knob is too small for Gloved hands to operate. A Larger knob needs to be designed.
Con: There are only three holes in the slide bar to use to shorten it up. I would prefer more of them. I like to just slide my bar backwards towards the bow for transport; to protect the sight.
Con: There is No way to mount a bow-mounted quiver on this sight. That's something that the design department should think about changing!
Con: The .029 pins were not as bright as they should be as far as I'm concerned. My bad eyes could not see them! Especially the yellow pin!
Pro: Toxonics .040 pins are Very bright and easily seen by archers with poor vision!
Pro: I really like the 3X GLASS Lens in the sight! It is extremely sharp and Clear! It is also recessed into the pin housing far enough that it should be well protected as well as to protect the sight pins! Well Done Toxonics!
Con: The Glass 3X lens isn't a good idea for hunting, especially in rain or snow! A very minor detail! The lens is easily removed for cleaning or replacement.
Pro: Toxonics is now offering even higher magnifications for the Topgun series! A Major Plus!
Pro: The Pin housing is well designed with enough windows to illuminate the pins.
Con: for hunting this would worry me during transport because of twigs.
Pro: I like the way sight pins are adjustable as individuals or in a gang!
Con, I had to just about take the whole sight apart to change from the stock pins to the "Blind man" pins.
Pro: The glow ring around the pin housing was not as distracting as the Copper John. I liked that!
Pro: The Light kit does a Wonderful job of lighting up the pins. They can be seen from 20 yards away! I followed instructions and darkened the lens a bit with a sharpie pen.
Pro: The slide bar locked down tight with no problem and stayed tight!
Pro: Once adjusted and locked down, the adjustments and screws never once loosened up! Great Job Toxonics!
Pro: I really liked the 10 inch bar on the sight and it Did Not mess up the balance of my bow.
Con: The price for the Topgun is substantially higher than the Copper John sight.
Without further testing, I would be Hard Pressed to come right out and pick which one of these sights I really prefer! They both have a lot of characteristics that I like. They also have some things I don't care for, but that's the same with just about anything!
So Far, the Topgun is a bit ahead in the preference department. Mainly because of the Magnified lens and the tool-less adjustments. Also because I owe it to my Sponsor (Toxonics) to shoot and Promote his products; but I Will Not Compromise my Integrity by Falsely understating my dislikes in his products!
I have contacted Toxonics and given them my feedback and ideas to improve their sight. I'm sure they will take into consideration what I have told them. Scott at Toxonics (he's the owner) and I talked on the phone and he was really receptive to my suggestions! I appreciate that! Besides that, he is a really Great guy to talk to!
Now that I have bored you all to tears, I'll let you decide what would be the Best Product For You! As for me; it's back out to do more testing tomorrow!
Dick
Here goes:
Copper John Deadnuts Pro 3
Pro: Extremely Bright, Easy to see pins for .029 size
9 inch sight bar ( I prefer a 10 inch sight bar myself, but the 9 inch performed flawlessly! )
Pro: 3rd. axis setting was a dream!
I like the Huge Bright ring around the sight, but it is a bit distracting for me.
Adjustments for the sight would be nicer if they were tool-less.
It took Several tries to get everything Locked down tight. It didn't take long to do but it was annoying. I'm not one to reef hard on screws that go through light metal or aluminum.
Pro: Overall appearance of the sight is very good and it is extremely well made.
Pro: The housing has enough light windows in it to help brighten the pins up.
Con: But I'm afraid that the design of the housing would lead to disaster as a hunting sight. I'm afraid that while going through the brush a twig could easily go thru those windows and break the fiber optics on the sight pins.
Con: I have also heard that the fiber optics on these sights have a tendancy to break very easily. So I bought the cup to protect them. It would have been nice to have the front and rear of the pin housing closed up.
Pro: The after burner light kit is Totally Awesome! I followed directions and used a sharpie pen to dim the light down. Even then you can still see the pins glow in the dark from a distance of 20 yards! Three thumbs up for the Afterburner light kit!
Pro: I forgot to mention that I really like the zero pin gap, vertical and horizontal gang adjustments, plus the fact that the sight level can be leveled with the independent vertical gang adjustment feature. That is some really great engineering and deserves recognition!
Pro: I like the way the slide bar Locknut tightens down. It stays tight and is big enough to use even when wearing bulky Gloves!
Pro: I also like how the sight bar slides back into the bow and locks down for transporting. This feature should protect the sight area quite well! Good Job Copper John!
Con: There is No way to mount a bow-mounted quiver on this sight. That's something that the design department should think about changing!
Pro: The price for this sight is very reasonable! About $79.
Toxonics Topgun M-38
Pro: Very good looking overall appearance and as usual Toxonics out did themselves in the Sturdiness Department!
Pro: I really like the Windage and elevation adjustments with the good and clear markings.
Con: The Lock down knobs for windage and elevation are extremely close to each other and tend to get in each others way! I had to keep taking one or the other levers off to fine tune the sight. In my opinion they need to work on the design there.
Con: The slide bar locking knob is too small for Gloved hands to operate. A Larger knob needs to be designed.
Con: There are only three holes in the slide bar to use to shorten it up. I would prefer more of them. I like to just slide my bar backwards towards the bow for transport; to protect the sight.
Con: There is No way to mount a bow-mounted quiver on this sight. That's something that the design department should think about changing!
Con: The .029 pins were not as bright as they should be as far as I'm concerned. My bad eyes could not see them! Especially the yellow pin!
Pro: Toxonics .040 pins are Very bright and easily seen by archers with poor vision!
Pro: I really like the 3X GLASS Lens in the sight!
It is extremely sharp and Clear! It is also recessed into the pin housing far enough that it should be well protected as well as to protect the sight pins! Well Done Toxonics! Con: The Glass 3X lens isn't a good idea for hunting, especially in rain or snow! A very minor detail! The lens is easily removed for cleaning or replacement.
Pro: Toxonics is now offering even higher magnifications for the Topgun series!
A Major Plus!Pro: The Pin housing is well designed with enough windows to illuminate the pins.
Con: for hunting this would worry me during transport because of twigs.
Pro: I like the way sight pins are adjustable as individuals or in a gang!
Con, I had to just about take the whole sight apart to change from the stock pins to the "Blind man" pins.
Pro: The glow ring around the pin housing was not as distracting as the Copper John. I liked that!
Pro: The Light kit does a Wonderful job of lighting up the pins. They can be seen from 20 yards away! I followed instructions and darkened the lens a bit with a sharpie pen.
Pro: The slide bar locked down tight with no problem and stayed tight!
Pro: Once adjusted and locked down, the adjustments and screws never once loosened up! Great Job Toxonics!
Pro: I really liked the 10 inch bar on the sight and it Did Not mess up the balance of my bow.
Con: The price for the Topgun is substantially higher than the Copper John sight.
Without further testing, I would be Hard Pressed to come right out and pick which one of these sights I really prefer! They both have a lot of characteristics that I like. They also have some things I don't care for, but that's the same with just about anything!
So Far, the Topgun is a bit ahead in the preference department. Mainly because of the Magnified lens and the tool-less adjustments. Also because I owe it to my Sponsor (Toxonics) to shoot and Promote his products; but I Will Not Compromise my Integrity by Falsely understating my dislikes in his products!
I have contacted Toxonics and given them my feedback and ideas to improve their sight. I'm sure they will take into consideration what I have told them. Scott at Toxonics (he's the owner) and I talked on the phone and he was really receptive to my suggestions! I appreciate that!
Besides that, he is a really Great guy to talk to! Now that I have bored you all to tears, I'll let you decide what would be the Best Product For You! As for me; it's back out to do more testing tomorrow!
Dick
Why is your sight so far out in front of your bow? I've seen this before but never asked.